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As a woman I am deeply offended and insulted by the way the Bible disrespects women. From the extreme bias that allows women and girls to be sold as sex slaves, to denying women equal human rights with men, the Bible is filled with offensive and disgusting behavior aimed at women. When one stops and thinks about it, does it not seem extremely suspicious that the doctrines of the Christian faith are all biased in favor of men … especially in regards to the books of the Bible which were written solely by men, and the male god the Bible portrays? Passage after passage, book after book, women are subjected to all manner of disrespect and dishonor at hands of men, all directed by the god portrayed within its pages.

 

I think what lies at the heart of the patriarchal mindset which stretches back through history, is a basic disrespect of women. As long as men feel it is their right to control women and use them for their own needs and desires, a woman’s worth will be set by men and consequently undervalued. The Bible is not alone in its ill treatment and disrespect of women; the Quran shares the stage equally, but I’ll stick to the Bible for now since I am much more familiar with its biased ways. One reason that many women fail to recognize just how much offensive language is present in the Bible is because they’ve been taught otherwise by the church. Women’s needs are never addressed in the Bible, only the needs of men to acquire wives to bear them children and carry on their name.

 

Human rights are a fundamental aspect of respect, neither of which is afforded women in biblical doctrines. You cannot say on one hand that women are given a place of honor in the Christian faith, while on the other hand deny them equality with men and keep them in subjugation. As a fully aware person I know what it feels like to be dishonored and disrespected, and that is exactly how a good portion of the Bible treats women. It makes me angry that the Bible teaches men to think that it is their place to rule over women and gives them the authority to make up doctrines that keep women from reaching their full potential.  The right of every human being, male or female is to have control over their own bodies and their own destiny. Just because a person is born male does not give them privileges that are denied females, as the Bible decrees. Just because primitive men constructed a deity that they labeled as male and endowed him with attributes and powers, which are supposedly given to men to rule over women, does not make it so!

 

Respect and honor should be given to all people, and any doctrine that teaches otherwise should be labeled as false. It is your right to discard that which goes against what you know to be just, even if others say it is from god, because no true god would act in ways which are biased and immoral. Next time you pick up your Bible to read it, take notice of the manner in which women are treated compared to men and how nowhere within its pages are the atrocities and inequalities committed against women ever condemned … even by Jesus!

 

Here is a link and the re-posting of an article from the Examiner written 2011.

 

Disrespect of women common in Bible, despite the thoughts of others.

C. Boyd Pfeiffer

 

“Some have questioned the previous column on the de facto slavery of women in the Bible. Religionists have suggested that women are respected, thought well of and revered throughout the Bible. Yeah, right!

For a few examples, let’s start with Genesis, where Adam and Eve were made, with Adam made first – naturally! – and Eve an afterthought by God. Then we have their kids of Cain, Abel and Seth. Later on they had more sons and daughters, with none of the daughters named or numbered.

Then Adam and Eve’s children had kids, with only the male heirs named, never the women named or numbered. Are we starting to see a trend here? Ultimately we get to Noah with his sons Shem, Ham and Japheth named but no one else in the family named – no daughters or wife named.

By chapter 11 in Genesis, we get to Abram (later Abraham and his named wife Sarai (later Sarah). But of course Sarah was his half sister, and marriage to her was prohibited by edict from God (check out Leviticus and elsewhere).

And of course on two occasions (with the Pharaoh and Abimelech, king of Gerar) Abraham pimped out his wife by claiming that she was his sister instead of his wife. Nice guy, Nice treatment of women.

After Sarah died, Abraham married Keturah and had many sons with her (all named) and later on gave his many sons some of his concubines – kept women – again de facto slaves. And this is just in the first few pages of the Bible, that Inerrant word of God.

The Bible just reeks of disrespect, hatred, lack of loyalty, lack of care, ownership, dominance over, and condemnation of women in all sorts of ways. Women were enslaved, given away, knocked up, sold, burned to death, bartered with, and treated as property right through the entire Bible.

This continues up through Jesus and the New Testament where Jesus dismisses his mother (and brothers) for bothering him during preaching sessions, as described in Matthew 12:46 – 50, Mark 3:31 – 35 and Luke 8:19 – 21. Go ahead – don’t believe me – check it out.

Exodus 21:7 describes how a man can sell his daughter as a slave. Sure, modern translations use the word “servant”, but servants are hired and paid, not bought and sold. Thus, these are instructions for selling your daughter into slavery, an even stricter type of slavery than that for men.”

Even baby females are disrespected. Check out Leviticus 12:2 – 5. This section points out that a woman giving birth to a male is considered unclean for seven days, then is purified after 33 days. With a female birth, the woman is unclean for 14 days, and then purified only after 66 days. Thus, female babies are looked upon as “dirtier” or more unclean or less pure and valuable than baby boys.

Is it any wonder that serious skeptics point out these things and disrespect the Bible because of the disrespect that the Bible shows to half of our citizens?”

 

56 Responses to “Women: Disrespected and Dishonored in the Bible”

  • The women are treated respectfully, without exception, in the New Testament. Rose, it astonishes me that you are unable to see this!

    The God of the Bible is love. He shows love to His creation. It is self-willed man who disrespects Him!

    Enjoy your Bible study, Rose!

    Josef Sefton

    • nolan:

      A man with little respect for women wrote the bible. obviously. I’m sure they liked and were nice to their women but nobody back then respected them.

  • http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4218049/k.3C57/Christianity_The_Best_Thing_That_Ever_Happened_to_Women.htm

    Dear Rose, I encourage you to read this article!
    The God of holy Bible respects women but He will also punish them when He deems it appropriate to do this.

    God bless you!

  • Rose:

    Hello Josef,

    The Bible consists of both the Old and New Testaments, while I admit the Old Testament is far worse than the New in its treatment of women, nevertheless the New has its share of disrespect. Commanding women to submit to men is very disrespectful and dishonoring, also treating women like children who are not allowed to speak in church or teach men is disrespectful.

    Not once in the entire New Testament does Jesus, or any of the disciples ever condemn the horrendous bias and mistreatment of women in the Old Testament! That my friend is disrespect and dishonor of the highest order …

    Best regards,
    Rose

  • Rose:

    Hello Josef,
    I’m quite familiar with the worn out theme of how much better Christianity made the lives of women compared to other cultures, but that’s not really the point I wish to discuss. Most things humans do can be improved upon, but that is not supposed to be the case with god. The Bible falls far short of giving women full and equal human rights, when compared to the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”, which declares that all humans be given equal human rights regardless of gender or race.

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, written in 1948, has no problem whatsoever in clearly stating that all people are entitled to equal human rights. Why does the Bible, believed by Christians to be the word of god, have such a problem with equality? Could it be because the Bible was written by primitive men who believed males were superior? That seems the likely answer!

    Take care,
    Rose

  • Dear Rose, your criticism is unjust. Submission is a beautiful gift.

    When Jesus lived on earth He was submitted to the Giver of Life and there is no person who has ever lived who has a pure character like He had.

    He believed that there is a heavenly Father and so can you Rose, if you decide to wholeheartedly trust and obey what He teaches.

    Submission, repentance and salvation are all gifts of God!

    When man desires wholeheartedly to willingly submit his will to God’s will that’s something to joyfully celebrate!

    Men and women worldwide, the God of the Bible is alive. He is not only written about on the pages of the Bible, but He is also a real living person.

    And be encouraged for as you start to pray to Him that His will be done in your life, you put yourself in the position to learn from Him!

    What an honor it is to submit to His perfect will, for He is not only all wise but also compassionate!

    Choose Christ. Choose the way of submission to God’s good, acceptable and perfect will!

  • Rose, put your trust, your complete trust, in God’s just name.

    He is compassionate toward women. He shows real respect to them.

    He created you, Rose! Submission to His true teachings results in the spiritual fruit of increased purity! When anyone fights against Him they will go more and more astray. Rose, any commentary that is true ought not to be dismissed as “worn out” but held to be precious!
    God is good!

    • Rose:

      Hello Josef,

      I don’t know what you consider respect and compassion to be, but the Biblegod sure doesn’t show much of it to women. The Bible is filled with bias and disrespect towards women, a sure sign it was created in the minds of superstitious, primitive men. No right thinking person should ever submit to the immoral ideas that are found in the Bible. From Genesis to Revelation its pages are filled with violence, in fact the only solution to every problem is blood-shed! What a horrible teaching to submit yourself to!

      I choose the way of peace and respect for life, not the way of violence like the Bible teaches. Take a look at Revelation 19:21 “And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” …

      Enough said,
      Rose

  • Rose, in this verse we see that life and death is in the hands of the risen Lord Jesus! That is a beautiful and comforting thing, for He is just.

    When He will “take the life” of these people behaving incredibly wickedly it is something that is vitally neccessary, otherwise they would destroy the world!

    Such is the intensity of their insane rage against God’s creation.

    The Son of God intervenes to put an end to their evil behavior.

    Praise be to His wonderful name forevermore!

    Rose, the words “I choose the way of peace and respect for life, not the way of violence” are a promising start, but without being shepherded by the Prince of Peace these good intentions can’t be satisfactorally realised.

    Because man is easily lead astray he needs to submit to the God of the Bible to know true peace.

    He also needs to blessed with the capability to be a promoter of true peace and only the God of the Bible can do this!

    Praise be to His wonderful name forevermore!

    • Rose:

      Hello Josef,

      The title given to Jesus as the Prince of Peace is not in keeping with the image given him in Revelation, where he is portrayed as a bringer of violence, death and destruction! A true promoter and bringer of peace would never resort to the savagery and destruction of war, presented as the nature of Jesus in Revelation. From cover to cover the Bible is a book of death and destruction, with its god as the commander of it.

      The Bible never has, and never will bring peace, because it is a book of war!

      You will never find the true way of peace until you lay aside the book of war.

      Rose

  • Rose, I have found the true way of peace and I didn’t lay aside the book of books but opened it up and cherished it as gift and I was blessed to do this by the Giver of Life!

    Rose, you are underestimating how wicked man is.

    My savior has a right to put an end to the carnage that the armies of the world are involved in! At the time that He very dramatically intervenes, the very survival of the inhabitants of the earth is at risk. O yes, He is longsuffering and kind but He will also punish! Rose, you ought to praise Him for this future act which He will carry out.

    Truly the sinless Son of God is Our Prince of Peace
    and Our King of righteousness!

    Enjoy your day!

    • Rose:

      Hello again Josef,

      No man is not wicked! There are bad people and there are good people, but man by nature is not wicked as the Bible teaches. One of the greatest harms to well being and peacefulness that has been inflicted upon humans, is the biblical teaching of sin.

      To teach that all humans are not born equal as the Bible does, and that all humans have an innate sinfulness is a crime beyond measure! Yet, this is exactly what Christians are doing when they promote the teachings of Scripture as truth.

      The Bible does contain many words of wisdom, but it also has a great number of primitive ideas that are wrong, and that ancient man out of ignorance thought were true. Modern humans need to use their greater intellect and critical thinking skills to discern between what is true and what is false in the Bible, and not follow blindly after the ideas of primitive men.

      Be a seeker of truth,
      Rose

  • Dear Rose, you write that man is not wicked! If you opened up the history books and the holy Bible you would see how wicked man regularly behaves.

    Man isn’t more advanced than the teaching in the Bible. God’s thoughts are far higher than ours!

    Rose, the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. ( See Jeremiah 17:9)

    The greatest impediment to well being and peacefulness is man’s continual rebellion against God!

    The biblical teaching of sin doesn’t inflict harm upon humans. On the contrary it offers them a chance to know the truth that they are sinners!

    Be a seeker of truth! That is very good advice. Seek Christ, for He is the truth!
    Enjoy your day!

  • Dear Rose, the Bible clearly teaches that the words of the Lord are flawless.

    Proverbs 30:5
    “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

    Psalm 12:6
    And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver purified in a crucible, like gold refined seven times.

    May I encourage you Rose to recite these words, for they will truly become a blessing to you, if you decide to cherish them!

  • TMJ:

    “Submission is a beautiful gift.” If it is so beautiful why is it only for women to men? Submission to Christ, no big deal as He is perfect. Man/husbands are flawed and by nature selfish. All humans are by nature selfish and must work together to overcome it. Claiming one must always give in to the other only promotes selfishness. The phrase absolute power corrupts comes to mind.
    I find it laughable when people say, well men have to submit to Christ so what is the big deal to submit to your husband. I find it laughable that anyone could even ask that question. Christ was completely self sacrificing, everything he did was for the benefit of His bride. There is not one single self serving act committed by Christ. His life and purpose was for His brides welfare. His entire reason for being here was to save and serve His bride. There is not one single husband who can honestly claim that everything he does is for his wife’s benefit.

    I have lost track of the number of lessons I have heard over the years telling wives that if your husband tells you what time to have dinner ready and what to serve you must obey. If your husband tells you how to wear your hair you must obey. If your husband tells you who you can talk to and who you can have for friends you must obey. If he tells you how to arrange your cabinets, your drawers, etc. you must obey. If he tells you when to get up and when to go to bed you must obey. How do they justify all this. Well the bible says wives must submit to their husbands. How many men would truly see a life like this as a gift? Yet they go to scripture and say see, it says you must submit to me. Isn’t that beautiful.

    Oh yeah another one, husband has final say. I have always found this one interesting. Husbands are commanded to love their wives and one of the definitions of love found in Corinthians says love does not insist upon its own way. Hmmmm what exactly does that mean? Well you see since a wife must submit it is okay for a husband to insist upon his own way(final say). I always love how they say well someone must decide so God says it is the husband who gets final say. Not sure where that verse is found. I would have thought that unity/oneness was the goal and striving for consensus would do a much better job of achieving unity. By the way I have been married for 29 years and my husband and I have never had a final say moment because we have always striven for unity. We work on things until we find something we can both live with and agree upon. I guess that means we are not scriptural because my husband doesn’t pull out a final say trump card and say you must submit to what I want.

    Women are disrespected in the bible. It is dishonest and quite a spin to claim otherwise. How many men want to line up and submit to their wives. How many husbands want to have to always surrender their wants, wishes and desires to those of their wife? How many men want to be told that their wife has the right to control every single aspect of their life? How many men want to be told they must obey their wife and to do otherwise is to sin. I don’t think too many men would volunteer for that. However, since God created us I guess He can decide which vessels are for honor and which are for dishonor and obviously the women is the vessel for dishonor. God made us and that is His right. You can deny this but you are not being honest. It would be better to just admit it and then work on how to make it as painless as possible for women. Obviously men are God’s favorites and everything He did is intended to help them achieve happiness. Women are merely instruments for men’s happiness and if they want to go to heaven they must accept their lowly position.

    • Rose:

      Hi TMJ, thank you for taking time to comment.

      You said: “However, since God created us I guess He can decide which vessels are for honor and which are for dishonor and obviously the women is the vessel for dishonor. God made us and that is His right. You can deny this but you are not being honest. It would be better to just admit it and then work on how to make it as painless as possible for women. Obviously men are God’s favorites and everything He did is intended to help them achieve happiness. Women are merely instruments for men’s happiness and if they want to go to heaven they must accept their lowly position.”

      Since you acknowledge that the Biblegod is male-biased and plays favorites with men, while dishonoring and disrespecting women I would think you would begin to question the validity of his existence.

      In my article “Gender Bias in the Bible”, I go into depth as to why a god such as the Biblegod who is so obviously biased in favor of men could not be a true god, but rather is a god made up in the minds of primitive men, who thought they were superior to women and should rule over them.

      The Bible is at odds with itself, on one hand it says that “male and female are equally made in gods image”, but on the other hand it treats women as inferior beings by denying them equal human rights and commanding that men rule over them and abuse them. A true righteous and moral god would never allow and condone, the unjust and immoral behavior that is perpetrated against women throughout the Bible.

      The only answer to the gross injustices against women that are ordained and sanctioned by the Biblegod, is that the Bible was written by men who created a deity in their own image and likeness.

      I am glad you have an intelligent husband who realizes that men and women are equally human and deserving of equal treatment in all areas of life. When I was a Christian I used to pick and choose the parts of the Bible I thought were better than other parts too, until I realized that generally speaking my morals were far better. Now I know the reason for that is because the Bible was written by men who lived in Patriarchal societies, where men controlled and dominated women, so obviously their god would do the same.

      My hope is that you will take a critical look at the Bible and see that it was written entirely by men who lived in Patriarchal societies, which structured their thought around the male mindset. Everything in Patriarchal societies was viewed from a male perspective, thus all the writing was done by men and reflected that viewpoint. Good luck in your search for truth.

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Lacey:

    Hi Rose,

    I am currently TRYING to do what many have encouraged me to do over the years: read the Bible in its entirety. Far from helping me see the glory of god, I have become even more horrified and disgusted than ever. It’s one thing to be familiar with these stories, sugar-coated for the Bible school crowd. It’s another to read them one after the next, in all their nastiness. Lot offers his virgin daughters to a mob, then runs away with them and has sex with them (oh, but they tricked him into drinking wine and seduced him! Right.), then Abraham pimps out his wife (so nice of god to intervene there), then goes on to impregnate his female slaves. WTF?
    Anyway, every time I reach a passage that doesn’t sit well with me, I look into it. I’ve come across your name a few times in my readings, and I just wanted to say that I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said, and really appreciate your educated opinions.
    -Lacey

    • Rose:

      Hi Lacey,

      Thank you for the kind words and stopping by to comment, your feedback is very important to me. I can tell from the incidents you mentioned that you are only part way through Genesis, I am sorry to inform you that it doesn’t get any better for women in subsequent books.

      I am so glad that you are digging deeper into the troublesome verses in the Bible. What you will find to be a common theme is the gender bias against women, and the widespread denial of their equal human rights … this is what ultimately led me out of Christianity. There came a breaking point for me when I could no longer tolerate the abuse women suffered in the Bible and still believe in its god.

      Please look around my blog and comment freely … I enjoy the feedback. 🙂

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Hi Rose – I just found your website and wanted to say that I completely understand your anger regarding the treatment of women in the Bible. But have you ever considered the possibility that parts of the Bible have been mistranslated by men in order to make men appear superior? I believe that this is the case and have explained why on my website. I hope you will go to my website and at least consider what I have to say. Men try to say that they are superior to women; however, the Bible is clear that the woman is the glory of man. (www.womanthegloryofman.com)

    • Rose:

      Hello Kristen,

      So glad you took the time to comment, feedback is always appreciated. 🙂

      There are a number of reasons why I don’t think that the male-bias of the Bible is merely a case of mistranslations by men. First off, the theme of male superiority is dominant and abundant throughout the Bible, everything that is presented is done so from the male perspective including the characteristics and attribute of its god. This way of thinking is common to patriarchal societies, which was what most cultures throughout history have been, including the Hebrews. The male-bias is not just abundant in the Old Testament, but also very much alive in the New Testament where it pops up frequently in Paul’s epistles. It stands to reason that primitive, male-bias men are the authors who penned the Bible, and created a god in their own male image and likeness.

      Another flaw in the idea of men mistranslating the Bible to give themselves superiority, is if the Bible were truly the word of god why would he allow men to corrupt it? How then would anyone know for sure which parts are true and which are false?

      I took a look at your website and must say even the title you chose shows the male influence in Scripture … instead of women having an identity of their own, the implications are that god made woman for man’s glory.

      Kind regards,
      Rose

    • nolan:

      did you ever consider everything in the bible was written by a human without the help of an extraterrestrial

  • Michelle:

    Thank you. After an unfortunate incident inflicted by spiritual demons, I recently became a whole hearted believer. After almost being possessed, being wrought with negative emotions even suicidal thoughts, several weeks ago, something brought my attention to a book that I’d never opened. Bound in red with no outside writing, I opened it only to find the New Testament written in modern language. As I started to read it, things occurred that are unexplainable. But it was the finding of God, I really started to seek him the more I read and found myself going from being a nonbeliever to a believer instantaneously as nothing else could’ve taken away what was happening. I’m still studying the bible and yes, I’ve noticed the bias of women and disrespect. All this from who ate the apple first I’m guessing but no not really. Gen I states God created man and woman in his image but he didn’t create Adam and Eve until Gen II and I think we all know there were other people otherwise, who did Cain and Abel marry…? I’ve been creating a relationship with our maker recently and I’ve professed my problems with the bible. Something keeps reminding me to stop worrying about it and keep reading. It’s about our suffering that brings us to God, as harsh as it all seems. I’m constantly reminded of the temporary status in these bodies and how things will be different after all this. I have felt the love and joy filling my heart, the finding of truths and how things written by men are of no consequence. Keep reading and find what I’m suppose to know, I don’t have to like it or even agree with it. I know he loves us just as much as any man and I’m thankful for it all. Bottom line, we don’t have to like it and we don’t have to agree with it, we follow God and Christ, keep our respect for them, keep our allegiance, ask for forgiveness while being a forgiving person, being thankful and just keep being better people…then it will all work out in the end.

    • Rose:

      Hello Michelle

      Thank you for taking the time to comment on my blog 🙂 I am so glad that you have found a reason to strive to be a better and more forgiving person. Sometimes it takes something on the outside (like your reading the Bible) to help us express our true kind, caring and forgiving natures. If your personal idea of who you think god or Jesus is brings you joy and makes you feel loved that is good, but just remember that you are the one who is responsible for changing your life and giving it purpose.

      As for your question of who did Cain and Able marry … well, that cannot be answered because the whole Adam and Eve story is just a myth as is the creation story of Genesis 1. If you do the research you will find that most early civilizations had their own creation stories, the one contained in the Bible is just another version created by primitive men who were ignorant of science.

      Keep sharing your love with others, it makes a difference.

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Michelle:

    Not a myth and you certainly shouldn’t be stating such. You just lost me on that and lost all credibility. I know what I know and I know what I see and they’re real. Demons have dominion over our world, they’re in the air, hide in clouds, tops of trees and even ride on people’s backs. God gave me gifts once I realized and found him. I’ve professed my anger and dismay on the portrayal of women, and something keeps telling me to stop paying attention to the details and just get the message. But thanks you’ve just totally discredited yourself with the myth crap.

  • Schuylar Diamond:

    Rose all your points are valid. My wonder is why you even bother to talk with people so thoroughly in the depths of delusion? Case in point is the missive written by some lady by the name of Michelle Sept 15, 2014 @ 9:53 PM. This woman is so far out in left field that a search party needs to be formed to go out and retrieve her! She is actually seeing, in her profound delusions, demons in trees and riding on various peoples backs, or so she says. Totally certifiable! This woman needs the help of a psychiatrist with many talents, okay! One can only hope that some voice does not begin to tell her to kill the demons and she subsequently begins to murder people. One nice thing that I have taken note of is that the younger generation, more and more, is rejecting Christi-insanity because of it’s implausibility. Stay the course Rose, keep talking truth to ridiculousness. There are many of us out here who can see the truth because our minds are not brainwashed.

  • Dee:

    Hi Rose,
    Everything you said about men is right,but always remember christ is not like men.Am not saying you should concentrate on the negative but look beyond it, there is always light at the end of the tunnel.I hate to sound defensive and religious cause it won’t help.Men are like pharisees but christ will remain christ even to the end.Christ liberated women and was and will remain kind to all mankind.He can use you to lead the church cause will put a gift in you cause you are a chosen generation and a royal priesthood.You are a vessel unto honour not mens slave.when you see christians who are always in denial move past them,scrutinize the bible yourself,let the past be the past and search for the word “love” not every christain understands this infact they love authority and power than love and women feel victimized cause men will always have flaws yet i believe you are made for God’s glory.I hate to Judge you,who am i?a true christian will reply with love not arguement about who is the greatest among men.come back home to christ,he will put the strong will in you and make you a shinning star,that will put the devil on the run and shake heavens and earth, cause you are a valuable person friend infact i can’t believe this passion of yours should go down for argueing and stressing,i tell you you are too brilliant for it..as a matter of fact you are free,free in christ, leave this flaws and all this religious drama and go for christ.you will see better things than the ways of men.christ is the real freedom.I refused to quote bible verses cause i know Jesus so much that he will never disrespect you even if men do.Keep movin forward

  • Dee:

    Hello Rose,
    Always remember you have your own identity,no man will qualify you or define who you are never! You are rose ,you are covered with glory,honour and splendor, you are the Image of God a man can not breath life into a woman so she can be a living soul ,why? God births us, don’t get confused not everyone understands everything but we pray for God’s wisdom not the wisdom of men, and God will reveal the truth to you,don’t give up, no man can take your glory..your importance,honour and praise..you have free will,you can serve God if you want to but God is always the best way,you are an individual,you are are not paying for the sins of anybody, and lastly We are one in christ male or female,jew or greek. Whatever differences we share dont let anyone decievee you we are equal in christ.If we are not then we have nothing..we are losers.I believe you are special Rose and you will remain special.Christ is your bestfriend.it’s time to try some living you won’t regret this.Love

  • nolan:

    sadly I have a default mechanism that keeps me from engaging or believing in things I know are wrong.
    Why don’t Christians ask more questions? I personally do not believe in god, but im not opposed to considering all possibilities..
    If god created us who created god?
    im not Buddhist but I like Buddhism because of its lack of approach of a god, aside from many other things.
    there are never ending possibilities, I would rather spend a lifetime of thinking rather than accept what is presented to me.
    oh yeah… the real question, back then men didnt give women rights. why is it a surprise that that would then translate to the stance the bible takes?

    sorry for the spelling on my mini rant!

  • Cathy:

    What better way to manipulate others – with God’s approval stamped on it!

    This is our sinful flesh interpreting it. But our spirit, our gut, our “default mechanism” tells us that this is wrong, and rightfully so!

    The bible speaks to our heart, giving us just enough to trust this might be true. And when you trust – wow! The pieces of the puzzle start coming together! You’ll come to the point you’ll know for sure the bible doesn’t contradict itself. And that’s Him helping us! God promises that!

    Keep reading. Never stop. We are a work in progress. Don’t let a small technicality get you off the right path. You’ll get it, I guarantee!

    • Rose:

      Hi Cathy,

      Keep reading the Bible is good advice, but you must do so with an open mind and open eyes, then you will see how extremely biased and immoral it really is! No good and moral teaching would ever condone and allow slavery and the abuse of women, but that is exactly what the Bible teaches!

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    But when I keep an open mind, I see how the bible does NOT condone abuse and shows how extremely biased and immoral our human nature can be!

    The definition of an open mind:
    “A mind receptive to different opinions and ideas”.

    We close our minds when we see something we don’t like. Case closed, that’s it. No more questions. Run away! Stubborn?

    The beautiful thing is God does not give us an example of perfection, steps back and says now be like that! Then we’re “like how?”.

    The bible makes us go “huh?”. That’s a good thing!

    • Rose:

      Hello again Cathy 🙂

      Not only does the Bible condone abuse, it also states that its god is sometimes responsible for the abuse! Here are a few examples:

      1. The Biblegod punishes children for the sins of their parents.

      2Sam.12: … the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died …

      2. The Biblegod allows men to capture and take any woman they want as wives.

      Deut. 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house …

      Num.31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves …

      3. The Biblegod allows people to be bought and sold as slaves and passed down as inheritance to their children. Fathers can even sell their daughters!

      Lev.45:44-45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever …

      Exo. 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

      I can give you many more examples like those above, or you could just read the Bible yourself 🙂

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    Okay, one at a time. In 2 Samuel chapters 11 and 12, David and Bathsheba committed adultery AND murder (yes, Bathsheba was responsible, too, for what happened to her husband by entertaining sin) Should they have expected to be “blessed” after doing such a hideous thing?

    Should God have “let this one go”, and let that child be raised by parents who thought doing such a thing was okay? Wouldn’t we be compassionate toward a child whose parents were that evil, and wonder what he’s going to turn out like then because of their influence?

    I have a niece right now who’s narcissistic parents have almost completely destroyed her spirit– honestly “ruined her life”–and she knows it now as an adult. She’s so depressed she actually thinks it would have been better to be not born at all. She’s right to a certain extent, poor baby… But that’s another story. We know God works all things for good – she’s not there yet but she will be because she has very loving aunts and a fair knowledge of God through her grandmother. But understand? She has suffered MORE being alive…

    It was actually more merciful God took the child’s spirit back to Himself – BEFORE he came to the age of accountability – rather than subjecting him to unrepentant sin (because hurt people hurt people). The baby’s death hurt David and Bathseba more. And we would have most likely considered God unjust if He wouldn’t have dealt with this immediately.

    So what resulted? It brought David to his knees. And God did not answer by keeping the child alive (David’s will), but by making David and Bathsheba better human beings through it all (later weren’t they blessed with “God giving them” Solomon?).

    David trusted God and accepted His judgment. He knew God was not going to “bless” him for what he did. This accountability is what helped him move on in great power and wisdom (which apparently he transferred to Solomon!) He realized what he did was wrong, and did not project the blame onto God. Were he and Bathsheba sad? Yes! But David took accountability – a thing most of us are not inclined to do! And God actually forgave him and blessed him SO much in the end that the Messiah came through his future offspring!

    Jesus came from the fruits born of humilation and repentance! How fantastic is that!

    Look at David’s prayer Psalm 51 when he was convicted on this issue. And a suggestion: instead of using the KJV bible, the Message bible is a trustworthy translation to words we understand nowadays. I use the NIV/The Message Parallel bible (’cause I like to check out/verify everything!) but I hear the NKJV (New King James Version is really good, too.

    Much love!

    • Rose:

      Wow Cathy! I’m shocked! You are actually trying to justify the Biblegod’s immoral act of torturing an innocent child by striking him with a sickness and causing him to suffer in pain for seven days before dying, all because his parents sinned? How wicked and hideous is that?

      You are trying to tell me that the only way the god you believe in could get David and Bathsheba to repent was by torturing their baby? If that is the kind of god you serve I don’t want any part of him! A true god of love and mercy would never torture and kill a child to manipulate his parents into repenting and obeying him … that is called “Blackmail”. There is no justice in killing the innocent for the sins of the wicked!

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    What is your opinion, then, how God should have dealt with David and Bathsheba?

    • Rose:

      Hi Cathy, glad you asked 🙂

      There are many ways an all powerful god could have dealt with the situation and none of them involve purposely taking the life of an innocent child. The simplest solution is to not allow the child to be conceived in the first place … god is suppose to be all powerful isn’t he? Addressing the matter of adultery, well divorce seems to be the best way to deal with that. Death is certainly NOT a justifiable punishment for adultery, especially that of an innocent child! Lastly, there is the matter of David causing the death of Uriah, once again if the Biblegod is truly all powerful he could have easily kept Uriah from a certain death on the front line of battle.

      When you analyze the biblical story of David and Bathsheba, it seems the author needed the adulterous affair for them to get together and bare Solomon, which supposedly led to the birth of Jesus further down the line. So, if you believe the Bible, the whole adultery/murder/baby killing affair was all a part of god’s plan to bring forth a messiah … Yikes! Surely there must have been a better way!?

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    Yikes is right! I know!!!

    God didn’t keep Jesus from being slain, either, whom the bible says was a blameless, perfect man!

    How unfair was that???!!!!

    • Rose:

      More like barbaric!!

      Instead of having Jesus tortured and killed as a human sacrifice, a truly merciful and benevolent god could have forgiven his creation as he expects us to forgive one another. After all, if you believe the biblical story (which I don’t), the whole plan of sacrifice and redemption was god’s creation to begin with. So, why was god’s method of forgiveness so cruel, unjust and barbaric? Sounds like a primitive human invention to me … but then, so is the Biblegod.

      Kind regards,
      rose

  • Cathy:

    Yes, the biggest struggle I’ve had is figuring out how to forgive and forget, and to love everyone unconditionally, which, all religion to the side, I know in my heart is the right thing to do! The Biblegod says he is merciful and loves us, but it sure doesn’t seem so.

    So do you know the secret of how to do that? Because I think if we were all able to truly do that, it would solve a lot of the world’s problems.

    • Rose:

      Hi Cathy,

      First off let me say that I don’t think it is necessary to forgive every wrong done against us, or to love everyone unconditionally. One of the main benefits of forgiveness is so that we don’t hold bitterness in our hearts which can be very detrimental to our well-being, but sometimes there are wrongs done to people that are so egregious I think they are beyond forgiveness … in those cases closure must be worked through in some other way.

      I think it is very unwise to try and love everyone unconditionally. The world is full of people who are not trustworthy and prey on those that seem vulnerable, even the Bible says to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

      The number one person you need to look out for and protect is yourself, because if you don’t chances are no one else will either. So, first and foremost love yourself unconditionally 🙂

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    (I dont understand you quote the bible quite a bit, but dont believe in it?)
    How do you come to love yourself unconditionally?

    • Rose:

      Hi Cathy,

      I believe that the Bible was written and inspired by men – NOT god! The Bible like any other religious text written by men contains words of wisdom along with a lot of garbage, it’s up to rational people to discern between the two … like it says in Isaiah “Come let us reason together”. Being able to rationally and reasonably discuss issues is the key to getting along with others, instead of blindly following archaic rules written by primitive men who claimed to hear from god.

      A good thought experiment to ponder is to imagine that in a flash all knowledge of religion disappeared from the earth … life would pretty much continue on as normal. Doctors would still heal people, farmers would still grow food, mechanics would still fix our cars and scientists would still make discoveries to better humanity, BUT if the situation were reversed and all knowledge of science disappeared from earth, life as we know it would come to a screeching halt! That should tell you something about the importance of religion versus science.

      Loving yourself unconditionally is not an easy task for many people, especially when they have their religious texts telling them they should hate their flesh because it is sinful. Our bodies are not sinful, they are the product of billions of years of evolution. We humans are the prime example of what evolution can produce given enough time. Each of us has only one body and one life to live it in, so if you can love yourself to the fullest and treat yourself kindly, it helps in being able to love others and to treat them as you treat yourself.

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    So no religion, no higher power. I understand what good and bad is, it’s built in, in my conscience. I found being good is more desirable. So why do I screw up and do bad things anyway (selfish, impatient, bossy, lazy, etc)? And when I do bad, it doesn’t feel good, and my relationships suffer. And then I don’t like myself. So how do I come to love myself anyway? Is there some secret I don’t know?

  • Rose:

    Hi Cathy

    Loving yourself doesn’t mean you have to be perfect, it means you are doing the best you can. If you do something bad, take it as a learning experience and do something better next time. None of us are born with a built in instruction manual, we all learn by experience. You can love yourself knowing you are doing the best you can. It’s also okay to be selfish and think of yourself first as long as you don’t hurt others in the process … you are just as important as anyone else and should be even more important to yourself.

    Kind regards,
    Rose

  • Cathy:

    I can’t see how selfishness is a good thing. When I’ve had bad experiences, if I really look at it, I find it’s usually due to my own selfishness. I don’t like being around selfish people either. They seem to not have any conscience at all, no moral compass, doing whatever they want, thinking only of themselves. And their behavior makes me angry, because it can really hurt me, especially when it’s someone I’m emotionally involved with. Then I realize the anger is my own selfish reaction, which then I get disappointed in myself. So selfish is a bad thing! It’s a mad cycle!

  • Rose:

    Hi Cathy

    There are many aspects to selfishness, some good and some bad. The ultimate evolutionary benefit to selfishness is survival, if you don’t look out for yourself first no one else will, except for mothers protecting their young. There is nothing wrong with thinking of yourself and putting yourself first, as long as it’s not at the expense of others. After all, if you don’t put yourself first when it comes to caring for your needs, who else is going to? As long as you treat others with kindness, consideration and compassion there is nothing wrong with putting yourself first.

    I don’t see why you think anger is a selfish reaction, anger at injustice is a good thing because it motivates a person to take action. My anger at the abundance of injustice and bias found in the Bible, is what led me to begin questioning its credibility, which eventually opened my eyes to see that it is just a work of primitive men who lived in patriarchal societies that believed slavery and the ownership of women was their right.

    Kind regards,
    Rose

  • Cathy:

    Yeah. All cultures used to be like that. But I think definitely people misinterpret the bible today. Good thing we’re all becoming aware! The progress we’re making in science and religion is incredible. Things are happening so fast!
    And yes, the righteous anger thing–even Jesus did that in the temple, except that it was at the expense of the money-changers. But it was for a purpose, for the good of all in the end, so we can consider “righteous” anger ok. I see what you mean.

  • Rose:

    I don’t think it’s so much a matter of misinterpreting the Bible, but rather people trying to justify its biased and immoral teachings. There is no getting around it, the Bible teaches it is permissible to own slaves and deny women equal human rights with men, on those two points alone it should be rejected as a good book.

    Kind regards,
    Rose

  • Cathy:

    I think you’re getting too hooked on the negative things. God only included these stories in the OT to show what man has done to each other. These were real things that went on in history, across all cultures, not exclusive to “God’s people”. I’m glad I didn’t live in those times! And yes, it’s still going on today with “God’s stamp of approval” on it from people misinterpreting the bible for their own gain.

    • Rose:

      Are you saying that you think the Biblegod is responsible for including stories in the Bible that attribute horrific deeds of injustice to his name? It’s not that I’m getting “hooked” on negative things, but rather I am just being honest about what the Bible actually says.

      How can you claim that people misinterpret the Bible, when it clearly states that god himself decreed that slavery is allowed and that women are to be ruled over by men and denied equal rights with men? The Bible also says that stoning is an approved punishment for adultery and blasphemy! How wicked and horrible is that?

      We all know that humans can do atrocious things to each other, but when a book claiming to be the word of god also sanctions and decrees the same things, it makes you wonder who really authored that book.

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Cathy:

    Are you really being honest about what the bible says?
    In your next argument, you quoted Deut 21:10-12, but did not even give the whole story. You never even finished verse 12 “and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. It goes on further verses 13-14: “She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go into her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her.”
    Saving an innocent victim of war, cleaning her up, taking care of her basic needs of food, clothing and shelter, giving her time to mourn, offering to marry her, letting her go if she wants, is definitely not abuse, disrepect or dishonoring. And please don’t misread “if you have no delight in her”. He already had delight in her in verse 11 by being “attracted to her”. Apparently she would not be delighting him if she detests him. I do not see anything but compassion being taught here.

  • Rose:

    Are you seriously trying to justify those verses? You mean to tell me as a woman you see nothing wrong with your god allowing men to lust after any beautiful woman they capture and take them for wives? Probably after they have just slaughtered the woman’s entire family, which is why she is allowed to mourn her father and mother. I’m sorry, but I find that disgusting!

    Whether you want to accept it or not, women in the Bible were considered the property of men and captured women had no choice in the matter of marriage. If the man desired to have sex with her he took her, she was not free to leave unless he didn’t want her anymore. How would you feel if you were captured and forced to marry the man that just killed your parents, without any say in the matter and then he could just discard you when he tired of you? Do you think a man should be allowed to marry any woman he wants just because he desires her and wants to have sex with her? Well, the authors who wrote the Bible seem to think so, and it seems you do too!

  • Cathy:

    Okay. I think I understand now how two people can read the same passage of scripture and get 2 entirely different meanings. I have never witnessed the truth of Matt 13:14-15 like I am now:

    “In their case the prophesy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says ‘You will keep on hearing, but not understand; you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; for the heart of this people has become dull, with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes, otherwise they would see with their eyes, hear with their ears, and understand with their heart and return, and I would heal them.'”

    And 2 Cor 3:14-17 “But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ it is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”

    I am only going to ask you one more question: have you ever sincerely asked the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus talks about in John 16:1-15, to help you understand the bible?

    • Rose:

      Yes, there are many passages in the Bible that can be interpreted in different ways, but what I try to focus on are the ones that are rock solid in their meaning. Here are some examples of where there is no ambiguity in what is meant.

      1. Being stoned to death for adultery
      2. Being stoned to death for not being a virgin on your wedding night
      3. Daughters could be sold by their fathers
      4. People could be bought and sold as slaves and foreign slaves could be passed down as inheritance in perpetuity
      5. Blasphemy was punishable by death
      6. Wives were considered the property of their husbands
      7. Men could capture and TAKE women they desired to be their wives
      8. Punishing innocent children for the sins of their parents

      Those are just a handful of the many unambiguous rules and laws that the Bible states are given by god. Any god who would ordain such laws is unjust and immoral and definitely NOT a god of love!

      Please, feel free to ask me as many questions as you like 🙂 I was a Christian for nearly 28 years and believed I was indeed filled with the Holy Spirit. Everything changed when I began to allow myself to ask the really tough questions like: “Why are my moral standards so much higher than than gods?” When I quit making up justifications and excuses for god’s immoral behavior, it got to the point where I realized he was acting on the same level as the primitive, barbaric men portrayed in the Bible were … yikes!

      While I don’t know if there is or isn’t some sort of creator behind our wonderful universe, I do know that it can’t possibly be the god which the Bible portrays as being untrustworthy, immoral, unjust, biased, primitive and bloodthirsty. Compared to the Biblegod I am the greatest saint who ever lived 🙂

      Kind regards,
      Rose

  • Beatrice Williams:

    Hi Rose
    Isaiah 55:9 as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.The Biblical verses being brought up to justify your moral standards are ones from the old Testament. I thank God that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins, so that whoever believe in him, will not perish but have everlasting life. Hallelujah sister in Christ. “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.” 2 corin 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! Ecclesiastes 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be Hasty in your heart, to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your Words be few. As a dream comes when there are many cares, so the speech of fools when there are many words. 2 Peter 2:21 it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. I will pray that the Lord may comfort you and answer the questions He sees fit to reveal to you. No that he has wonderfully and fearfully made so trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding but in all your ways submit and he will make your paths a straight. Peace be with you.

  • Beatrice Williams:

    Oh just a few more examples of Gods love for his greatest creation, US!!

    Galatians 3:11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.

    John 8:7 when they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at HER.”

    Luke 13:10 On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12 When Jesus saw HER, he called HER forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” 13 Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

    Psalm 116:5-9 the Lord is gracious and righteous our God is full of compassion the Lord protects the simple-hearted; when I was in great need he saved me.
    Be at rest once more, oh my soul,
    for the Lord has been good to you.
    For You, O Lord, have delivered my soul from death eyes from tears my feet from stumbling I may walk before the Lord in the land of the living.

    I call out to dry bones “come alive” I chellange you to listen to K-Love again or for the first time. Go on the website to find the station in your city

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